What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots - 2010/02/06 01:50 Recently I did a post in the "Amazon Room" concerning apples and pectin, it raised concerns about what is really good for our birds and what really isn't. I feel after reading all the posts from all you distinguished readers that it should be brought to every ones attention, so all may comment and learn.
Question: Are apple seeds, avocados, chocolate, garlic etc safe or toxic for our birds? Should we feed any of these to our birds? My personal feelings which are well known is that I will err on the side of caution.
The Forum is Open.
Jay
Post edited by: Jayd, at: 2010/02/06 01:51
Post edited by: Jayd, at: 2010/02/06 04:13 ---------
There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. If I have but a couple of things to believe in, it's my God and fellow Man/Woman!!! Spock,Joey,Salsa,Tango,and Fred..Plus:3 conures, 1 Indian Ring-Necked keet,8 'Tiels and 1 Budgie..
What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots - 2010/02/06 02:49I eat the whole apple, seeds included, but I wouldn't think of giving them to my fid. After all, think of the difference in our sizes! I do not feed avocado or chocolate either. She has had lentils and other legumes that were cooked with garlic, but it hasn't been frequently.
What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots - 2010/02/06 03:05Howardine is right, no avocado, chocolate or apple seeds, the garlic is ok just not the whole clove, if a food is seasoned with some garlic then that is ok.
We do have some threads that list the toxic foods that includes onions, mushrooms, any carbinated drinks, tea, coffee or salt. ---------
Never take life seriously..................no one gets out alive anyway!
What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots - 2010/02/06 03:36 Thank you for your honest answers...To clarify my questions, there are a lot of no-no's that have little or no physical proof or records of actual distress or death from our birds eating them!!! Should we on the whole do a re-evaluation of these concerns?
Jay Everyone's opinion is highly valued... ---------
There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. If I have but a couple of things to believe in, it's my God and fellow Man/Woman!!! Spock,Joey,Salsa,Tango,and Fred..Plus:3 conures, 1 Indian Ring-Necked keet,8 'Tiels and 1 Budgie..
Re:What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrot - 2010/02/06 12:57I had heard nothing about apple seeds and so have been letting Ziva tear into an apple and eat any portion she wants. No negative affects noted, but she has been so enamored with tearing the thing apart and spreading the resulting mash around the area that she has paid little attention to the seeds. If she has ingested more than one out of an entire apple being destroyed, I'd be surprised. ---------
Re:What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrot - 2010/02/06 16:00My Thoughts on this topic.
Should any of us, as responsible pet owners take a risk, even if it MAY be low in regards our much loved critters diets and over all health? Right off the bat, I want to state I will not take any risk with my pets health.
I only want to consider "Facts" and not "split hairs" at what level of gestation of a given item will kill your bird or other critter.
First - Everything I state below is relative to body weight and the "Dose" a given critter intakes. It is also relative to the different digestive systems of critters and their ability to actually open or chew a given item such as a small seed or LARGE pit.
Parrots have powerful beaks and when they encounter any seed or pit, their instinctive response of course is to crack it open to get to the meat inside.
Dogs - They just chop once and swallow, they do not thoroughly chew any food. So a seed will just go through it's system "Whole" come out the other end and POOF, they just completed the natural cycle of seed spreading.
Humans, we do chew all our foods thoroughly and will grind those seeds and thus digest all contents of the seeds, releasing all the poisons into our system. However, do to our body weight, we would need to eat a HUGE quantity of poison seeds to become ill or die.
Seed containing fruits that your bird should never be given the seed or pit:
Avocado - Skin and pit definitely poisonous. The meat is highly debated... I chose NOT to allow any pet to eat it.
Veggies:
Onion - Contains a chemical named N-PROPYL DISULFIDE which denatures hemoglobin. This will DESTROY RED BLOOD CELLS. Eating onions can cause ANEMIA, JAUNDICE, and BLOODY URINE.
***Much of the information pertaining to ONIONS and the effect on red blood cells pertains to dogs. There is not conclusive evidence that it will do the same to blood cells in parrots. At this time it is suspected that ONIONS may be unsafe to feed to your parrot. Until more study has been done you should be aware that there MAY be a potential hazard in having your parrot eat onions.***
*** My bird does eat spaghetti etc. that has small amounts of onions, however while eating if I see him getting close to one, I remove it***
Garlic - Same issue as Onions.
*** I do allow my bird to eat meals prepared that have small quantities in them***
These are all proven facts in the veterinarian community online you can find.
The key is either a quantity of zero food items that contain any of the above, or moderation and careful tracking of the quantity you let your bird have in anything you know that could be detrimental to your birds health.
So this sums up my take on these items and and risks I am willing to take with a few of them. ---------
You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird . . . So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing - that's what counts. I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.
What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots - 2010/02/06 16:25Thank you Dan, and all of you. As Dan has stated "Proof" scientific proof is what is needed. What health benefits are received if we do feed our birds these questionable items and isn't it just plane safer not to feed them to our birds in the first place? Whats your feelings? Pro's, Con's? STEP-UP, the Soap box is open!!!!! Thanks Jay ---------
There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. If I have but a couple of things to believe in, it's my God and fellow Man/Woman!!! Spock,Joey,Salsa,Tango,and Fred..Plus:3 conures, 1 Indian Ring-Necked keet,8 'Tiels and 1 Budgie..
What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots - 2010/02/06 16:36I have to echo Dan's comments, I won't feed these foods listed above because it has been advised that they are toxic to my birds and I will err on the side of caution when it comes to their health.
Maybe there is no scientific evidence that states they are toxic but I am not going to take the chance, there are plenty of other foods they can enjoy so why risk it. ---------
Never take life seriously..................no one gets out alive anyway!
What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots - 2010/02/06 16:54I also want to clarify my statements in the other thread in the Amazon room regarding foods and false information found on the internet at literally 100's of sites.
Many just list everything they "Think" is toxic. Sometimes it is not the actual item we feed, but the plant, tree etc. and their respective leaves, stalk or bark. It can also be due to where they grow and what is sprayed on them or possible bacterial contamination.
An example is Tomatoes. I have seen them listed as toxic on several sites. The tomato itself is not toxic, but the stem and leaves are.
Another example is grapes. Grapes are most the time sprayed with insecticides and sulfur to prevent mold. Some sites list Grapes as a poisonous food item. They are not, but care must be taken to thoroughly wash them to remove these poisonous toxins from the skin. This is also true of just about any produce you feed your bird. Always wash it thoroughly to remove any harmful residual poisonous chemicals or even worse ground grown items like strawberries, squash, cabbage etc. They can have very harmful bacteria on them that can kill or give you bird a serious bacterial infection.
I must also say, so called "Organic" food can be infected with Bacteria just as any other veggie and should never be offered until completely washed. ---------
You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird . . . So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing - that's what counts. I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.
What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots - 2010/02/06 17:02 Excellent point Dan, Grape food seed extract, or as Maggie and I use Organic Apple Cider vinegar.. We us this to wash food, clean cages, and add to our fids drinking water.[they love it] Jay ---------
There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. If I have but a couple of things to believe in, it's my God and fellow Man/Woman!!! Spock,Joey,Salsa,Tango,and Fred..Plus:3 conures, 1 Indian Ring-Necked keet,8 'Tiels and 1 Budgie..
Re:What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrot - 2010/02/07 00:14I'm learning that regardless of what one hears ... there is no substitute for reading the scientific literature. Anecdote and hearsay do not assure safety.
With Mali, I noticed that she never ate anything in abundance the first time. It made me think that she was testing first. After a few introductions, if she felt no adverse affects, she would eat the food. That is no failsafe method of feeding our fids either, but it did give insight to the way birds choose what is safe in the wild. ---------
Re:What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrot - 2010/02/07 02:16Thanks for starting this post Jay, and also to those who have posted. I was also surprised when I read that uncooked beans/legumes can also be toxic. Not that I've fed raw, but makes me wonder how long I need to cook them? I'm doing between 40 - 60 minutes right now...
Jay, can I clarify? Are you using Grape seed extract and/or apple cider vinegar? You lost me on that one. I read literature that grape seed extract is a great cleaning agent for cages etc., then other literature that said it was toxic. Neither was based on academic studies...
What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots - 2010/02/07 02:59 Spock here, The head cleaner's [ha-ha] here Maggie and Jay use "Organic Apple-Cider Vinegar" for food cleansing, washing and our water, and apple-cider vinegar for cleaning..40min is plenty for bean cooking.. Jay and Maggie say thank you... Live Long and Prosper.. Spock ---------
"live Long and Prosper." * "It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want." * " I endeavour to be accurate."
What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots - 2010/02/07 13:34Great response Jay.
Here is a link to a study performed supporting what Jay is doing to clean all those veggies and fruits.
Simple, quick and effective with sometips as well such as cutting off the ends of fruit and removing any obvious bruised areas:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14540742 ---------
You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird . . . So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing - that's what counts. I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.
What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots - 2010/02/07 14:48Ok, back to the question of apple seeds....
I have done many hours of research on this and find no medical supporting data what so ever on any type of critter becoming Ill from just the seeds.
Perhaps the confusion of non-medical people creating these lists all over the internet of poisonous items are missing important facts like what type of "Apple"?
The normal apples people eat are ok, there are MANY fruits described as "Apples" that will make humans and critters sick, like crab apples and May apples.
The May apple for example is poisonous and here is a scientific description of it:
GENUS: Podophyllum
Podophyllum peltatum L. —May apple; mandrake
FAMILY: Berberidaceae—the Barberry Family (see Caulophyllum)
PHENOLOGY: Mandrake flowers in mid-spring, often during May.
DISTRIBUTION: Podophyllum is found in open clearings in moist woods and along road banks as a migrant from adjacent wood lots. It is also encountered in wet or damp meadows, open fields, and pastures.
PLANT CHARACTERISTICS: Podophyllum can be recognized by sepals: 6, falling early; petals: 6-9, white, 1-2 cm long; stamens: twice as many as the petals; ovary: oval, with a large sessile stigma; fruit: yellow when ripe, 4-5 cm, fleshy pulp edible, many-seeded; plants: in colonies; perennial from a rhizome; the flowering stem with two, umbrella-shaped leaves and a short-peduncled, solitary flower in the axil.
POISONOUS PARTS: The herbage, rootstock, and seeds are poisonous.
SYMPTOMS: In humans and livestock symptoms vary and generally involve severe gastroenteritis, diarrhea, vomiting, and violent catharsis.
POISONOUS PRINCIPLES: Podophyllin, a resinoid toxin, is a very complex mixture of lignins (including podophylloxin, alpha- and beta- peltatins) and flavonols Sixteen physiologically active, well-characterized compounds have been isolated in podophyllin. Chemical analysis reveals 3-6% resin and 0.2 – 1.0% podophyllotoxin, picropodophyllin, quercetin, and peltatins.
CONFUSED TAXA: May apples are well known elements of our spring flora. No other plant has umbrellalike leaves and white flowers measuring 5 cm in diameter. It is not readily confused with any other plant.
SPECIES OF ANIMALS AFFECTED: Humans, especially adults, have been poisoned from the misuse of medicinal preparations. The fruits, the least toxic part of the plant, have caused poisoning in children. The principal effect is violent diarrhea and vomiting. Where rhizomes are dried and processed at commercial operations, the handlers often show severe conjunctivitis, keratitis, and ulcerative lesions. As little as 5 grains of podophyllotoxin resin can cause death in humans. A cow is known to have been poisoned in Ontario. The animal displayed diarrhea, salivation, anorexia, lacrimation, and excitement; regions of the face and mouth were swollen and the mucosa congested. Other livestock reported poisoned from May apple or mandrake are hogs and sheep. ---------
You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird . . . So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing - that's what counts. I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.
What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots - 2010/02/07 17:27 Thanks all, and Dan, don't stop, keep these informative post coming, there so important!!! Come on people, join in we want and need your input...There's so much out there we need to learn....Jay ---------
"live Long and Prosper." * "It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want." * " I endeavour to be accurate."
What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots - 2010/02/07 17:51An interesting thread no doubt, but if there is even a slight chance of a food being toxic it goes nowhere near Alfie. I'm not at all interested in the debate on wether or not something is actually toxic or just suspected to be so - I'll not be testing the theory!! --------- "Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." "A woman uses her intelligence to find reasons to support her intuition." "A true friend is someone who knows you - and loves you anyway"
Re:What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots - 2010/02/07 18:50pearllyn wrote: An interesting thread no doubt, but if there is even a slight chance of a food being toxic it goes nowhere near Alfie. I'm not at all interested in the debate on wether or not something is actually toxic or just suspected to be so - I'll not be testing the theory!!
Me either Lyn but the debate is interesting to read, thanks for sharing those facts with us Dan, the more we learn the more informed we are. ---------
Never take life seriously..................no one gets out alive anyway!
What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots - 2010/02/07 19:31A Karma to both Judy and Pearllyn,[1 now 1 later. lol] Great points, I feel this is a important debate, we must be aware even if we don't agree, some people didn't know some of these foods might[?] be dangerous to our companions...Pearllyn, look how much you have contributed to this debate by making the statement you did!!! Thanks Jay ---------
There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. If I have but a couple of things to believe in, it's my God and fellow Man/Woman!!! Spock,Joey,Salsa,Tango,and Fred..Plus:3 conures, 1 Indian Ring-Necked keet,8 'Tiels and 1 Budgie..
What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots - 2010/02/08 16:13I personally do not view this as a "Debate".
I view this as an informative thread with "Truths" established by scientific data generated by qualified doctors and professionals in the associate field.
If this was a "Debate", it would not be "Fact Finding", it would just be a respectful argument from different views.
Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2010/02/08 16:14 ---------
You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird . . . So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing - that's what counts. I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.
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Recently I did a post in the "Amazon Room" concerning apples and pectin, it raised concerns about what is really good for our birds and what really isn't. I feel after reading all the posts from all you distinguished readers that it should be brought to every ones attention, so all may comment and learn.
Spock,Joey,Salsa,Tango,and Fred..Plus:3 conures, 1 Indian Ring-Necked keet,8 'Tiels and 1 Budgie..
I do not feed avocado or chocolate either. 
She has had lentils and other legumes that were cooked with garlic, but it hasn't been frequently. 
