Question about Stepping Up

[eternalnewb]

Hello Everyone,
Well I've had Yuki, who is 2yrs old for about 6 weeks and overall she's doing great. she loves to be out of her cage, she is talking a lot more and she is eating great.
My question is about stepping up. I currently have rope perches curving around the outside of her cage that she loves to hang out on. However when I ask her to step up from the rope perches she bites, if I stand my ground and repeat it she bites even harder.

She will often fly across the room and when she lands if I go to her she will say "Step up" and then I say step up and she will step up onto my hand. She will Step up from the floor, the TV, the bookcase, anything but the rope perchers or her cage. Is it a territorial thing? Will she ever step up from the perches? It's not really a problem, but when I need to get her back into her cage it's really hard. I was able to lure her in with a treat but that only lasted for a day or two, she's so smart she caught on and wont go in. I usually have to end up waiting her out, and she would stay out all night if I let her. I'm glad that she loves to be out with me, and that she is ajusting so well, Is it just a matter of giving her more time to get to trust me?
Thanks for any advice you can offer

[Spinner]

It sounds like she certainly knows what step up means, but is being belligerent about returning to her cage. And, her bites indicate her desire not to get off the perches. This is really a training issue.

Here's a question for you: Since Yuki likely knows that stepping up off the rope perches ends up with her in the cage, what would motivate her to get off the perch?

What I am reading on your post isn't so much a question about how to get Yuki to step up, rather, the issue is how you can get her into her cage. To get there, think through a set of approximations (small steps) that you can use to train her to the desired response. You must also separate the stepping up off the rope and the return to the cage during this process.

[eternalnewb]

Hi,
Thanks Spinner, I agree that she definately knows what step up means but I think I might have been unclear in my post. I am not looking to get Yuki to step up from her perch in order to put her back in her cage. She's never stepped up from her perch and then gone back in her cage, and when she has stepped up from the floor I put her back on her rope perch that's on the outside of her cage, not in her cage. I wrote that one downside to her not stepping up is that it's hard to get her back in her cage, but that's not why I would like her to step up from her perch. Right now the only time I can hold her is if she flys across the room and then she will step up from the floor. It makes it hard to think about introducing her to the shower, or other areas of the house when I can't get her to step up.
Sorry, I guess I should have tried to be a bit more clear, but right not I'm not looking at how to get her back into her cage as she does go in eventually. I'm just curious as to why she wont step up from her rope perch. I'm pretty sure it's not because she thinks she's going back in her cage as that has never happened. Sorry again for any confusion

[Xtreme575]

Have you tried to use bribery? I know there are mixed feelings about training with treats, but coming from someone who is chronically late, I swear by it.

You might want to try to offer a treat (I use raw sunflower seeds or pine nuts), combined with what Dave is suggesting with the "small steps". What I mean is, hold the seed beyond your other hand to encourage the bird to actually "step" on your hand while you give the command. Hopefully it will be so busy trying to get the seed that it won't bite. If it does everything in one step, great, if not, you may need to break it down more. I'm usually able to coax my bird out at anytime with the promise of a seed, this has saved me from missing so many appointments!!! Good luck, and I hope that Dave offers further advice, or a more experienced member chimes in to help you out more.

[eternalnewb]

Unfortunately bribing her with treats hasn't worked yet. It might be that I havn't found the right treat as I am still getting to know what she likes. But so far her favorites are Walnuts, a grape, or a little piece of cracker, when I've tried as you said and held it on the other side of my hand so she would have to step up to get it. She will look at it and maybe lean towards it but then she looks at my hand and takes a nice little bite.
On a side note about biting, from what I have read previously in posts it said don't flinch away or cry out when she bites. When Yuki bites the first one is not so bad, but when I keep my hand there and repeat the command they get harder. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing keeping my hand there, it's almost like the first bite is a warning.
Sorry for all the questions, I'm still learning and I really want to do whats best for her.

[Spinner]

You're right, I didn't fully understand your question, but the fundamentals are the same - There is no motivation for your bird to step up in those scenarios around her cage or perches. She DOES have motivation when she's on the floor - you are her ride back to her favorite spot. She gets positive reinforcement to step up due to the ride home.

You need to introduce a motivation and positive reinforcement for stepping up while on her cage or perch. There is nothing wrong with using treats as a basis for target training. In fact, it is the usual method. Later, as the behaviour changes, then the treats can be eliminated/reduced.

As Xtreme said, small steps. Please do some research about training with approximations (these are the small steps). You start by teaching her to take treats from your hand. When trying to get her to step up with treats, you mention she starts to lean forward, then sees your hand and bites. Get her to take treats reliably (this is the target). After doing this well, introduce your hand between her and the treat. When she leans forward, you should immediately give her the treat and highly praise her. Don't expect a step up immediately. Continue doing this consistently and regularly. At some point, she will step up onto your hand. That calls for a big praise (and of course, the treat).

Go check out Barbara Heidenreich's web site at http://www.goodbirdinc.com. Order her training DVD and apply it to Yuki.<br><br>Post edited by: Spinner, at: 2010/02/16 21:05